Unpacking IBM i 7.6 and 7.5 TR6 With Scott Forstie
The IBM i senior technical staff member joins Charlie Guarino to talk about enhancements including new SQL capabilities, improved authority collection for IFS and security advances like MFA
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Charlie Guarino: Hi everybody. Welcome to another edition of Tech Talk SMB. Today I am joined by a great guest, senior technical staff member, and Db2 for i business architect and good friend Scott Forstie. Scott, thanks so much for joining me here today. It’s really so great to have you as a guest here on Tech Talk.
Scott Forstie: Oh, you’re welcome, Charlie. I’m just thrilled to be here and be part of your great show. So thank you.
Guarino: Thank you very much. So it’s no big secret why we’re here, Scott, as everybody now knows, we are talking about the newest thing that happen to IBM i, release 7.6. Holy cow, what an announcement it was and I’m overwhelmed by all the great things that I’ve been reading about it so far.
Forstie: Imagine it from my perspective. When we decided to do this release it was a secret for what felt like forever, and then deciding which features we could deliver in it and then working steadfastly to get those all done, done, done, the team is just so thrilled that we got to this milestone.
Guarino: And interestingly, I’ve been reading about the announcement itself and of course it’s not just 7.6, which is a great thing, but certainly there’s also a technology refresh for 7.5, which I saw, TR6. That’s a big deal too, and that shouldn’t be understated.
Forstie: Yeah, no mistake about that. Our customers are expecting us to enhance what they own, because we’ve been doing that on a regular cadence for well over a decade and it’s a winning formula not only for IBM i, but also all those people who run their business on it. So for this latest announce, we’ve delivered IBM i 7.5 TR6 like you said, and it has a lot of enhancements for all of the most critical categories of technology.
Guarino: Scott, before we get into some of the details of 7.6, just for those who might be curious, certainly we look at that chart all the time of the releases that IBM i has, and we always see, so the one I saw before the announcement was 7.5 and then i next of course, I mean the natural assumption here would be that now everything has now gotten promoted by one. Now the iNext, whatever it happens to be, everything got shifted by one. That’s a correct statement?
Forstie: So there’s a very predictable history and maybe a predictable future of IBM i operating system releases. You can look in the rear view mirror and they’ve been happening every two, three or four years, but most often three years, it’s been the exception that it’s been the two or the three of the four. And as you say, we have a roadmap that goes out many years and we refer to those future deliveries of operating systems as iNext, iNext plus 1, iNext plus 2, that sort of thing. And it’s similar to the Power hardware technology and chip advancements and everything that goes into having a business computing environment. So for people like myself, part of my responsibilities are to constantly look at the database, what are our clients asking for? What are the things that we have ideas to do that nobody knows to ask about? And put a plan in place, put a roadmap in place that matches that delivery mechanism for an operating system release or for maybe a technology refresh.
Guarino: That’s a good point. So let’s peel the onion as it were and let’s talk about some of the things that were announced and maybe more importantly how people can employ them in their own shops and get the best benefit out of them, things like that. So for example, I know there are some things in the list that I’ve seen, some things that are just brand new, and of course many of the things that have been enhanced, especially in the Db2 form. And one thing that comes to my mind obviously are things like, let’s talk with IBM i services. That’s a big one. That’s where I think people get great value. I mean everything that I’m reading is quite interesting, but the services particular is one that I know people on my team love to use and have gotten great value and great return. Just a quick sidebar note, those services as part of a refactoring journey are amazing.
Forstie: Thank you for saying all that. This is a particular focus point for me because I started that journey over a decade ago and it was a slow start. Our intention was to show clients what they could be doing with user-defined table functions and views. It was really just to show them the potential power of using this technology for non-traditional data. So things that aren’t in your database files. And what we discovered over time was it was actually providing direct client value. So turning the whole world into SQL-enabled data in IBM i is a reality for us. We have it and there are many hundreds of different ways to access data in IBM i using SQL to get at different topics that really have nothing to do with traditional database programming. And IBM i 7.6 has another step forward with that. We’ve gone through all of our SQL services and we’ve added in new columns to some of the most popular ones, and a couple of cases we added in brand new SQL services, and just the whole strategy of where does SQL fit into IBM i has been extended to even be the primary interface of choice for new technologies like Dd2 Mirror, like Migrate While Active.
If you look at those brand new technologies, you’ll say, okay, what are the interfaces that are available to use those technologies? And it’s going to be SQL.
Guarino: Yeah, I really marvel at that. How IBM has really expanded the traditional definition of SQL, I mean structured query language, but how it has leapt off the page of database, I should say. It is amazing, I mean, PTFs and all things we are going to talk about today, it’s amazing. And this is yet another example of how people really need to be taking advantage of what this can offer.
Forstie: SQL is for everybody on IBM i. It really is. And if anybody out there thinks it’s not for them, talk to me and I will sell it to you. I will give you some examples that relate to what you do, what your role and responsibility is, and you’ll be more productive than you were before the conversation.
Guarino: By the way, isn’t the expression it “leaped off the page”? Did I have it correctly? Oh, well we’ll leave that in because it’s good.
Forstie: Shazam, how about that?
Guarino: Perfect. Perfect. All right, so let’s get into some of these things. We did speak before we hit the record button here and you shared me that you have some favorites and, and I’ve identified, or I’ve circled them on my list here and once that I think you may want to just talk about and then maybe how they came to be or what was the impetus to create some of these new ones like that? And more importantly perhaps is why these particular ones are your favorite? Is it because of the greater possible utility people might get out of it? So let’s just frame, let’s start with that. What makes something a favorite?
Forstie: So what makes it a favorite? There’s a couple of attributes I look for and it’s a great question, because how does a business architect do their job? Boy? Oh, I mean that’s a wonder beyond the ages. So one of the things I look for first is, do our existing clients care about it? Are they asking for it and would they benefit from it? How would they benefit from it? And that manifests itself in certain ways. Is this an ease of use thing? Is it productivity? Is it performance? Is it security? I mean there’s these different quadrants that I usually see. And then the other part of it is, what’s the cost and risk of us doing this topic? Is it something we can accomplish and be proud of and know that we can complete it to their expectations? Does it fit within the skill I have on my team? Does it give my team a chance to grow and improve our skill and maybe we’re onboarding new staff? Like any business, you have to look at the different aspects of what it would mean to work on a topic, but for me it starts and ends with the users.
Guarino: And certainly customer input is a big part of this.
Forstie: And as you know, we are very close to our advisors for obvious reasons. It’s just great business approach to have such generous people willing to talk to you about these ideas and help you sort ’em out and know which ones are going to be the big difference makers for our industry, whether they’re the COMMON or COMMON Europe advisory councils. Our large user group is just wonderful. Of course, listening, understanding and guiding. I don’t know if you knew that’s what LUG means. And then people like myself going to user groups and POWERUp, the people at COMMON are wonderful, of course. That’s not just to provide technical information for people, it’s to receive ideas and feedback directly. And some of the best requests I’ve gotten have been in the hallways of a conference.
Guarino: I can see that. Absolutely. Sure. So thank you for that. So let’s start with the actual risk. As I said, I did highlight a couple and I want to call out a certain number of them that I think people will really get great utility, as I said. One that comes right to the top of my list is authority collection of IFS. That’s one, that’s certainly, the IFS in general has really, and I guess again, my customers own in our shops that we work with, IFS is such an integral part now of their applications and anything that we can use to better work with and collaborate with the IFS is a big deal. So we have authority collection, IFS. So tell us about that particular one. This gets started.
Forstie: So yeah, the born-on date on that one is really nearby, right? It just came out, but we’ve had authority collection for a long time, so why is there any of this enhancement in place? The whole approach with authority collection was focused on commonality, commonality of columns returned, and that was the strategy. It said, let’s have these views that the authority collection consumer can use that work for any kind of data. Well, that’s nice until it’s not nice. When you’re talking about the integrated file system, it’s got a different security model, it has a different security language. So some things just don’t fit in a common approach. And one of our security advisors made this clear to me at a conference and said, wouldn’t it be nice if authority collection could be consumed in a way for IFS that fits what the users are using and what the security teams will need to adjust? And so that’s the whole idea here is let’s throw away the columns that have no relevancy to the IFS when we’re working with the IFS and let’s transform the columns that are necessary to speak in the language of integrated file systems security. So we’re talking about RWX instead of use and execute or exclude. We’re really trying to transform it so that it’s directly consumable for the people who have the very tough task of securing the IFS.
Guarino: And in that one fell swoop you now have made that function much easier to manage, I should say.
Forstie: Yeah, and a little bit behind the scenes, when I started working on this, I decided to keep that conversation going with the people who brought it to me and they even broaden it out. So I went to three different IBM Champions and said, Hey, will you take it for a test drive? Let me see what you think. And that was definitely a winning approach because I got some great feedback like we always do from our IBM Champions. So thank you Champions. That’s part of why you have that title. And I’ve never been disappointed When I try to expand my logical team to more than just IBM, and you get a better perspective, you end up with a better result and it came to market faster because of that collaboration
Guarino: And real-world testing.
Forstie: Right, out of the gate. It’s going to be used for a purpose. And the whole idea with authority collection was a very serious topic for businesses. How do you grant the right amount authority and not too much, how do you subtract excess authority without breaking things? So either direction you go, you need to have this wonderful tool helping you along the way.
Guarino: Yeah, I mean clearly it’s a very important, but that’s good. So it’s authority collection IFS, and it comes as no surprise why that’s one of your favorites for sure. Another one that jumped out at me and you’ve identified as one of your favor, but I can see immediate uses, delete old journal receivers. I mean I know that’s one that we, I don’t want to use the word struggle with, but it is a chore potentially with old receivers hanging out there and consuming disc space and other things. Talk about that one exactly how might it work or how might somebody use it in their shops?
Forstie: So backdrop, many years ago I wrote the delete old spool files service that’s in systools. And I did it because me and some of those that I work with were not very good at cleaning up our spool files. So I did it out of necessity, but then I thought I’ll ship it and see if our clients will find a useful on it. And I’ve heard positive feedback from a number of people that they could put the rules in place for spool file retention and they just automate the management of it. So the concept is the same as spool file to me, but why it didn’t come out until now is because I was always worried that data would be deleted when it shouldn’t be. Data journals contain row images from database files.
So that is data and you shouldn’t delete it unless you are sure that it is ready to be deleted. And sometimes as software developers, this is a real trivial task because we’re working with sample data and we’re exploring a project and the data is not important and maybe we create an escrow schema, so we get the journal and journal receiver for free, and then we fill up the machine with all these unnecessary journal receivers. Okay, great. This is the perfect application of this procedure. You can go into those test QA dev environments and say, alright, we’re never going to run out of storage again, because I can put some rules in place, I can have them scheduled jobs and it’s going to find these general receivers and if they’re older than a certain date, they’re gone.
Guarino: Right.
Forstie: The other approach to use them is you can specifically look at, has that general receiver been saved? So maybe if it’s been saved and it’s older than a certain amount of days, then it’s the candidate to be removed, thus keeping you out of a storage issue.
Guarino: Yeah, I mean it is a great tool. I know for example, if I tried to delete a receiver right now, it’s not been backed up, I do get a warning message that does tell me.
Forstie: And that’s why it’s there because it’s a serious matter. You get a warning message. Are you sure? As a user, I don’t love those. Are you sure moments. Because it’s just like one more thing. Yeah, I’m sure. I’m sure. But the architects of it did it for good reason because once it’s gone, it’s hard to get back, especially if you don’t have it saved.
Guarino: Right, exactly.
Forstie: Maybe you used a temporal table and you got lucky. I don’t know, but.
Guarino: There you go. Well, it just speaks to the old adage with great power comes great responsibility, right?
Forstie: That’s so true. That’s so true. But I also like to see, SQL can be used to advance how opeating systems are automated, how are they managed? And if anybody has a staff who has to react to these things as they occur and then reset their day. Today, I’m going to go looking for stuff to get rid of. That’s not what you want to be doing every day. You need to find some rules and then automate them so that they can help you.
Guarino: Well, it just speaks to what these actually, these are tools. These are tools designed to help us do our job better, right?
Forstie: Exactly. It’s in a schema called systools intentionally. You could see how it was coded if you want to use it and then directly you can, or you can actually extract the escrow source and create a different version of it if you want to have your own parameters.
Guarino: We’ll talk about that because I do want to talk about tooling because that’s a great thing in this discussion as well. But let’s move on to some of the other ones that you’ve identified as some of your favorites. For example, I see another one that says tools, for example, group PTF details. I’m curious why that particular one you listed as one of your favorites.
Forstie: Oh yeah, that’s a fair question because it’s a very old service. It’s been around for a long time. It’s of the first ones we wrote and it shows you information about what PTFs do I have applied or what PTFs are loaded but not yet applied, that sort of thing. The advancement here is we were able to adjust an XML feed that shows information about PTFs. So a feed that can be accessed from your IBM i via this service, it’s a payoff moment. I’ll tell you what you can do. With this improved service, you can run a query and find out what hyper PTFs, what security PTFs could I apply immediately right now. So traditionally these things come out in coordinated groups, but everybody’s chasing security and rightfully so. SQL can help you. You could find out what immediate applied PTFs am I missing that I could apply today with this advanced SQL service.
Guarino: That’s not an insignificant point to make by the way. For sure. Absolutely. Immediate apply, there’s no reason why you shouldn’t be putting on
Forstie: And we’ve just changed the mean time to protection.
Guarino: Yeah, there are others on this list that have been announced that have been enhanced. For example, like Job info and sys disc stat, things like that. While you particularly have put them as your favorite per se, I can see great uses for those if you have any kind of monitoring software in place and any admin, clearly they’ll point to these as being their favorites, if for good reason I think too.
Forstie: Yeah. Okay. They’re all my favorites.
Guarino: Okay, there you go. Even better.
Forstie: And I had hand in every one of ’em. The way we do these things is we have a team here that has been involved in building every SQL service, so we have a way of reviewing and having consistency of terms and of approaches and completeness and all that stuff. So yeah, I definitely love it. And now with job info, there’s a new parameter. So a new parameter opens the aperture to getting the information you want faster because prior to this you would have to extract information about many jobs and then have a predicate, aware clause to just get down to the jobs you want to see. So yeah, yeah, a point well made. They’re all my favorites, but I had a circle a couple.
Guarino: Sure. Well absolutely, and I will concur with you that these are all my favorites as well, because this whole area is one of my favorite topics. We are in agreement. How does that sound? But that being said, I have others that you’ve identified. No, the ones we talked about just now, were 7.5 and 7.6. But there are some others that are only on 7.6.
Forstie: Yes, exactly.
Guarino: Just to be clear, is there a particular reason why that is that? Is it because of the hardware or is that the underlying reason?
Forstie: It’s not the hardware. There is a particular reason. So for each topic that we work on, I look and the rest of the team looks to see is it a viable candidate for a technology refresh? And that viability goes to the cost it would take to bring it back to a previous release, the risk in changing that specific code that’s required. So we look at the cost and risk and we also of course if we look to see whether customers are asking for it, and I also see the security as being one of the attributes that has to be considered, because if an advancement in SQL can help somebody with a security topic, then that’s one more good reason to consider it. So it’s funny that you should ask that because the one we just talked about, that group PTF details, we brought it back to 7.4. Now please, don’t tell Steve Will. I’m jesting of course. We always have a little room for exceptions, and I didn’t want clients who were on 7.4 to have to wait to get that security enhancement, and the cost part of it was really not that big. So we bend the rules a little bit on that one, Charlie, and I hope people appreciate it.
Guarino: It’s worthy of 7.4. How does that sound? 7.4 worthy. But that’s the only one you’re saying as far as in this announcement?
Forstie: In this announcement, yep. Yeah, so typically what would go only in 7.6 would be those things that are just so gigantic that our development team would just laugh at you if you asked if you could bring it to a TR. So like final table for example, that was an epic project, sorry for putting that tag on it team, but it was really a grand challenge to get that done and on the surface it’s going to look like, oh wow, this is a nice programming enhancement. I’m like, underneath the surface there was so much heavy lifting we had to do, and when we did it, we did it with an eye on performance. So I really commend the team for taking that double challenge. Sometimes when you’re tasked with a functional delivery, you might not be so performance aware, but of course our clients need that. They’re talking about using this in a production environment, so performance is always relevant, so it’s the cost part that really dictates it, Charlie.
Guarino: So let’s look at the 7.6 ones because some of these have really captured my attention as well. For example, update and delete SQL statements to support data change table reference is the description I’m reading, but what can you tell me about that particular one? That seems to be—
Forstie: So yeah, data change table reference is, I mean, you got to love SQL reference terminology. That’s completely accurate. And what it’s talking about is when you’re changing data, that’s the data change part, can you reference some of the information about the change data? So data change would be updates or deletes. The reference part is a query. So from an update or delete statement perspective, you wrap it with a select statement. But you can query out information about the rows that were just updated or were just deleted. And from that perspective, you have different approaches that you can take. You can say I want to see information about the table before it was changed. So if that was the case, you want to use old table. No, no, I want to see information about the rows after the changes are complete. Okay, use final table.
Guarino: Are you getting metadata or are you getting actual data change? In other words, are you getting journal type changes like compared journal images and things like that? Or is it—
Forstie: A bundle of good questions. So you’re not getting any journal information directly and journaling is not required to use this feature. What you are getting is whatever you want. Let’s say you have a file with 100 columns in it and you just updated 10 rows. Well, which of those a 100 columns have interesting data? Well, sometimes maybe the primary key column might be interesting. I want to know the unique identifier for all the rows that got updated. Well, what if I don’t have a primary key? Well, how about the relative record number? Okay, now I can get that. Well get ’em both if you want. You can get the data values that were in the columns before the change, after the change. They might be interesting if you’re going to send out a summary report. Hey, for this department we gave them all raises. What were their salaries before and after the raise? What was the total department salary before and after the raise? That’s all available in one data change reference update.
Guarino: I can even see a use case in debugging for that for example.
Forstie: Right, brilliant.
Guarino: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So that I’m excited to use that one for sure.
Forstie: Take it for a spin.
Guarino: I will take it for a spin. Absolutely. Some other ones that I’m looking at here. Database tooling and proof to return weight insights, that sounds like it might be of interest. And improved labels and units. Expand on some of those.
Forstie: So here’s what’s going on there. We had one of our SQE developers go off and look at how do we return information from visual explain. Well, the way that was all architected and it still works this way, is the IBM i server returns information to whatever software wants to see information about visual explain. So it’s a server-rich and server side controlled exchange of information. Well for every attribute return from visual explain that person reviewed, is the attribute name perfect? Does it perfectly describe the data that it’s returning? In a lot of cases it wasn’t perfect. So for each one of ’em, we looked at does the name need to be adjusted to do justice to whatever data it’s returning so that the consumer, you, me, and anybody else looking at digital explaining knows what they’re looking at? And sometimes it was the unit of scale wasn’t there, so you didn’t know if it was seconds or subseconds. Other times it didn’t explain what, oh, it’s actually an average. It wasn’t for this one case, it’s an average over all the times that plan was used. So every one of those has been renovated or improved for who? Anybody who cares about looking at database performance information. And you might be wondering which tools do you get this out of? Well, ACS of course has a visual explain. DS code for i database extension as a visual explain. They both get it because it’s a server side enhancement.
Guarino: Speaking of those two tools, one thing that I’ve been using for example in code for deep two extension is self. I am finding that very well something very powerful and the way it’s presented, the data to me, information to me is also very, very good, very convenient. It makes it very easy to use that self. Do you want to talk about self for those who may not be fully familiar with it?
Forstie: Sure. So first I’m glad that your team’s seeing the value of it. I use it as well. So it’s a log of SQL failures or warnings. Every IBM i has this feature on 7.4 and higher, but it’s turned off by default. So somebody has to become self-aware, Charlie.
Guarino: You were taking that one I think, but okay.
Forstie: Yeah, I was waiting my whole life for that moment. So thank you.
Guarino: I’m glad we get to share.
Forstie: If somebody is self-aware, they could go to the database and sys IBM ADM, there’s a global variable called self codes and change the default value for the system to be a specific escrow code or a general value like errors or warnings or all, which all means all errors and all warnings. Or they could do it for specific users, it could be job by job, they choose to opt into having self coverage. And then there’s a database file where this information is accumulated. Then of course the payoff moment is you get insight. You get insight as to do we have SQL statements that are failing? If so, in which jobs in which programs? Show me the stack, show me the number of times it’s occurring, show me why it’s happening. Got the statement text. And then it becomes very straightforward to decide to take action.
Guarino: Yeah, it’s great. And what I appreciate most out of that is how everything is just so concise in there and it’s a one-stop shop if you will. So I’m very self-aware in that regard.
Forstie: Excellent. Although I kind of suspected that about you.
Guarino: Self awareness.
Forstie: I got to add, Charlie. So audience, please don’t shy away from looking at the warnings. Warnings are cases where an escrow statement completed, but there’s something about it that wasn’t complete success, absolute success. There’s something about it that merits attention and if people only look at the errors, functional problems, then they’re missing out on some real easy wins. An example, let’s say you code your select list and your host variables incorrectly. I had three columns in my select list, but I had two host variables. That’s not correct, but that ends up being a warning. So simple programming mistakes can become very easy to observe and fix.
Guarino: And I noticed that in the actual enhancement to self that was in the release, in the announcement rather, was that the ability to stop logging for all jobs? Because right now it’s very granular, and so now we have a large, one big switch, in other words, is what I’m reading.
Forstie: It’s basically an immediate off across the entire IBM i. We had clients, we had clients who needed that because the amount of self data that was being generated was just so high. So they just needed like, okay, need to take a time out, let’s go make those changes and then we can think about turning it back on.
Guarino: So I want to start wrapping this up. So we did talk about some of the tooling and just to be clear, we’ve just scratched the surface as far as what’s been in this announced in this new release. I’m very excited to start using it when I can. I think one of the best things about this announcement is that it’s how quickly became GA, which is amazing to me. Very shortly, very soon after the announcement just was only 10 days or so, it became available for everybody to consume.
Forstie: April has been a whirlwind. I’m glad we’re on to May.
Guarino: Yeah, I think that’s wonderful. So what’s been your experience? I mean I guess the beta went really well and customers have been using this who are indeed using it already. It’s been going very well.
Forstie: Charlie, the beta program went the best I’ve ever seen it. And not because nobody did anything. We were getting constant reports from all the generous participants of the beta program. Here’s what we did, here’s what we observed, here’s our conclusion. They even give us a topic by topic score, so you can tell right away if you’re kind of lacking, you need to do something better. Media adoption, they understood the features, they were successful with the features. They didn’t sound the alarm, at least about the topics that I’ve been talking about and have visibility to. So, and that hasn’t always been the case. That’s why you have an alpha and a beta program so that you can get ready for that announce and know that everybody will have a good out-of-the-box experience.
Guarino: I think it’s great. I’m so excited about these enhancements and I can be sure that people, my peers and people on my team and people who I will be speaking to will be using these in short order.
Forstie: It’s the best release yet. I’ll say it. I’m on the record.
Guarino: Okay, well you are on the record, so that’s great. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that.
Forstie: Yeah.
Guarino: What else might you want to just leave us with to those in podcast land, as far as 7.6 or.
Forstie: I’ll say about 7.6. Yeah, I got something to drop. So I’ve been looking at all of the different work that our team has done and the different types of changes that were made and something seems very clear to me. 7.6 is a major advancement, not just in security capability that MFA can provide. It’s a major advancement in secure by default. So you know where I’m going with this. If you did nothing else but move to seven six, you have become more secure. Secure by default. So can you do more things once you’re in 7.6? Sure you can. We talked about some of them. There’s a bunch like you say, we haven’t talked about, but my business needs that level of security. So go get.
Guarino: That’s a great summary of what you’ve been talking about here. And I will end it by saying that I’ve gone over the entire list top to bottom and there’s something for everybody. There truly is.
Forstie: Right. That’s a good way to put it.
Guarino: How’s that? A good summation of what I’ve read from the announcement. I think it’s true. So Scott, as always, what a delight speaking with you. It’s always great to see you and to chat with you and particularly in this case, talking about the new functions and new things that are available in 7.6. So what a great discussion we had and I’m always appreciative of your time, so thank you from me to you for your participation in this podcast.
Forstie: You’re very welcome, Charlie. It was a pleasure of mine. I hope people join us at POWERUp and COMMON Europe and all the other great user groups. Charlie and I will be there, I’m sure, at COMMON events, COMMON events. Tell us about this episode. Walk up to us and have a discussion. We’d love to hear from you.
Guarino: Absolutely. I love engaging with everybody. It’s one of my favorite things to do at a conference. Absolutely. And Scott, I know I always see a crowd around you, so it’s very evident to me that you, you’re like-minded in that regard.
Forstie: Are those my bodyguards or what? I don’t know.
Guarino: Your detail. Your detail.
Forstie: Oh, yep, yep.
Guarino: Exactly right. Some of ’em just have the dark glasses on with the, what’s up with that.
Forstie: It’s always fun talking to you Charlie.
Guarino: Thank you Scott. Everybody, thank you very much for joining. Hope you enjoyed our discussion and do check out what’s been announced. I can promise you there’s something for everybody, as I said. And this is, there’s just a wealth of new productivity you’re going to get by using some of these new services. For sure, hands down. Until next time, everybody, we’ll see you soon. Bye now.